About Me

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No Fixed Abode, Home Counties, United Kingdom
I’m a 51-year-old Aspergic CAD-Monkey. Sardonic, cynical and with the political leanings of a social reformer, I’m also a toy and model figure collector, particularly interested in the history of plastics and plastic toys. Other interests are history, current affairs, modern art, and architecture, gardening and natural history. I love plain chocolate, fireworks and trees but I don’t hug them, I do hug kittens. I hate ignorance, when it can be avoided, so I hate the 'educational' establishment and pity the millions they’ve failed with teaching-to-test and rote 'learning' and I hate the short-sighted stupidity of the entire ruling/industrial elite, with their planet destroying fascism and added “buy-one-get-one-free”. I also have no time for fools and little time for the false crap we're all supposed to pretend we haven't noticed, or the games we're supposed to play. I will 'bite the hand that feeds' to remind it why it feeds.

Tuesday, July 4, 2017

Erwinwatch - Hing Fat (not DGN)

Or - DGN is for Bullshit!

What could DGN mean? It could perhaps be Direct Gorilla Network? Stretching-it; I'd be the first to admit, but it rolls off the tongue more easily that Overall War Nation! Hey; I'm just putting it out there! Doesn't Generate Nothing? No, then it would have to generate 'something' - double negative! Dirty Gonzo Nudes . . . oooh . . . really? A whole box-full? Doh, the Guy's a Numpty? Yes, that's probably what it could mean.

Don't Grip my Nads - you're making it up as you go along again!

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Early Move

So, last January (2016), he who makes it up as he goes along; one Erwin Sell, got busy making it up as he went along. No! I lie, he'd already convinced Stadinger some time earlier and had been making it up as he went along, going along again, for some time!

Having got Stads to tag all the Hing Fat posts with a 'DGN' tag, he went over to Forum Gratuite de soldat 1:32, and on their Hing Fat WWII (current production) thread, stated the following . . .

"These are wrongly label because distributed as HING FAT but are not ,factory name is DGN-look bellow figure poses and will see label/print with ink. Same company that produced the star wars unpainted sets for HASBRO in 2013/14 on command sets series"

So first question - what evidence is there for a company called 'DGN' having anything to do with Hasbro or the Star Wars Command range? None! He's making it up as he goes along - again. How can you equate the highly engineered Star Wars PVC figures with the blobby polyethylene sub-piracies of Hing Fat's WWII range, or link them to the same manufacturer? Easy - make it up as you go along!

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We Digress

A return to 'summer-bedspread'! There are four variants of base/base marking within the Star Wars Command range; each considerably smaller - as a percentage of the production 'whole' - from the previous type, in the order we'll look at them now - seeking evidence of 'DGN' as we go!

These are the commonest, over half of all Hasbro's figures were smooth based, no frame, no moulded info., no printed info. Rebels have oval cartouche-shaped bases, Imperials have squashed-hexes, a rule which continues across the series, with any 'neutrals' given one faction or the other without so much as a 'by your leave, madam!'

No 'DGN' here?

The next most common figure-base type is the bases of the painted 'one-off' or character figures, these have a small single or double-digit number or letter 'code', placed centrally in what may also have been used as a release pin? Certainly there was a rod inserted into the base with the stamping on the end of it. There are about ten of the previous 'smooth' bases to every one of these.

Click to enlarge - There is no apparent logic or order to the marking system employed with both duplicate numbers between good- and bad-guys and across both good-guys and bad (all depending on your proclivities for/or definition of; good and bad - me being Evilentity Man now, I'm probably rooting for the wrong 'good guys'!), and with one high number, one letter, and one inverted because the wrong stamp set was used, there is nothing of significance to us as collectors, and little to infer, presumably; cavity numbers?

No 'DGN' here either!

The final main type of base in the Star wars Command range is the framed base with commercial data. This is only found on a small number and the only code-like element is the C-001C which looks like it might be a Chinese (central/national) factory code, but it could be a local postcode for all I know, indeed it's equally likely to be 'C' for Command - 001st series! It is found on Imperial troops only, at a rate of around one for every two character figures.

They seem - further - to have been restricted to one wave-set only, the three 7-figure-no-accessory/vehicle sets, so they may be a wave-specific thing, or it may just be a batch-coincidence thing, as I bought all mine as late clearance from two outlets in the same town?

The markings however are reprinted on all the clear-polystyrene bases in all the sets, both studded-flat 'walker' bases and stalked 'flyers',  the lack of figures so marked in those sets with accessories may explain the differential hinted at in the previous paragraph!

Again there is nothing of interest or significance to us as collectors in the marking and 'DGN' is not to be found anywhere on any of the marked bases, nor the vehicles/spacecraft from any sets.

From those same three sets (at one figure per set) we get this sub-variant, tampo- or wheel-printed codes, two per figure; as we will see the upper code is the wave code.

The lower code looks to me like it might be a mould-cavity code, but given the way the modern wave assortments carry the same code on different content boxes (a habit going back to the carded-rack toys and knock-off action figure imports of the 1980's, and consolidated as 'industry standard' by people like Galoob in the '90's) it could be a pack-specific thing, although they are not in a straight sequence? No 'B0834', and no 'DGN'!

Cards have a jet-printed code which we can see mirrors the wave number of the enclosed figures from the previous picture in the case of the two left-hand cards, while the right hand card is the 'control' sample. Still no sign of 'DGN' on any of the packaging, nor is it to be found on the poster or consumer information leaflets, of which there were two slightly different printings - I've kept one of each.

Please note, I don't usually obsess to this level (which is why none of this was in the original six-part Star Wars Command posts), despite being quite obsessive when it come to my 'infant' toys, however you have to study the evidence Erwin quotes to call Erwin out, like all fake, phony, frauds; he weaves a pretty story!

There is no evidence of a 'DGN' being involved with the Hasbro series in any way whatsoever and I don't know how Erwin came to the conclusion there was - dare I suggest he was making it up as he went along again? Of course he was!

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We Return

But back to FGle1:32 . . .

He then waffles-on about the figures, even though this is the second page of a thread and everything he says has already been covered by other contributors, or is self-evident from the many photographs already submitted, but he has to say it all anyway!

"German set consisted of 16 poses.
Japanese 14 poses
Russian,-SAME s Chinese just different colors ,are 10 poses.
Italian and French are 12 poses
US only 12 poses and British (desert/tropical uniform) 12 poses are very close (well done) and sculpted of Matchbox original poses if not the same. Incredible the British’s rifles/weapons are longer and accurate than the ones on original Matchbox .Not the same with US infantry ones!!Germans are some nice poses with very poor helmet/weapon detail but I found out the helmet look more early (Holland=Dutch) type and because of the weapons=machine guns resemble more that army with the exemption of bazooka man and officer, the ones with m38/m43 caps could well be used for Finnish soldiers. Both Finnish and Dutch used similar high mark boots in 1940-1944
Italian are a mix copied from airfix.waterloo and original design intermix design. Very well done in poses and uniforms,weapon are good too.
French are by far the best unique poses, some poses idea resemble Oliver-ex pech hermanons French foreign legion ,wile others are complete new at all.VIVA LA FRANCE!!!
All but Japanese run from 52/55 mm scale well within airfix/matchbox range.
Japanese are smaller, not bad for typical Asian figures as they are generally smaller in live as race.
I did took effort to redistribute and repack all full sets x resale over a year and all are gone ,factory stop making and last bathes were shipped/bough by JUANG HO AND IMEX for repacking resale under their trade mark.
You may see some comments about the poses at this link too.

If it was in any recognised Earth-language, it might be worth a read? But there's the pay-off; in the last lines - another nice, fat, juicy, back-link for his mentor The Jabbering Fuck's Blog, carefully pre-seeded with 'DGN' tags!

Incredibly; the moderator immediately changed the thread-title to reflect this stunning piece of exclusive new information - adding 'DGN' without question!

Then a chap called 'lastwarrior' tried to make sense of it all, and while my French isn't good enough to understand everything he says, and he does seem to end-up [at least] believing in 'DGN', he also makes it quite clear he's not too happy with the lack of either a 'DGN' or Hing Fat mark (empirical evidence - it's absence from 'new' factoids is always a worry!), and wonders if 'DGN' could be a regional code for a Chinese province (you were SO close 'lastwarrior'!).

This was followed-up by 'denitz' posting the Hing Fat catalogue image, from the Hing Fat website, of the sets Erwin wants us all to believe are 'DGN', how dare Hing Fat claim someone else's figures as theirs! But I suspect 'denitz' was closer to my thinking than Erwin's when he posted the image?

But it seems Erwin felt under threat anyway, from all the talk of abbreviations and/or factory catalogue pictures, so he came back with a more detailed 'explanation', He starts off with...

"Let me made some clears and update comments here please with respect."

Well, hardly 'clears' but at least it's short enough to be translatable! As he's about to start making it up as he goes along again, there is NO respect involved. Indeed; as I suggested in October; he has no respect for the rest of the hobby or his fellow collectors whatsoever!

There was a lot of waffle as well; he has got far-more verbose since October! I'll highlight the important bits in red, and annotate in orange for the notes below the [direct] quote . . .

" First DGN is not a region or province from China. That looks like an assumption made off by extraction derivative of second letter to be probably from word-name (GUANGDONG )?The main southern province and largest industrial region with most export import ports of China.
Regardless is a region where most factories are located and yes, possible where the makers is .

Second These sets appear first in 2012 in US distribution before other places as under tubes and plastic bucket container with following clear words in then either under DGN bellow figures and in tubes .

Then appear as distributed/sold by Hing Fat brand with logo in packs only in 2014

And first announced in US in following post-link forum -blog
Were announce first in January 2014 in Stads forum -see link
xxx......... [Another back-link, keep earning The J-Fuck's support]

In the ones mark as DGN of 2012 and 2013,they says it (DGN)in the TUBE,bucket or bag format pack outside …
Exactly as this
Made by “DGN-CH” .
The DGN sold figures come with inc base wording stamp with same brand bellow base or pedestal.
See pictures samples please.

Then a year later(2014) Hing Fat distribute and start selling then.Packs from Hing fat say-(Made in China) -only and Hing Fat logo plus brand name separated not (made by HING FAT)or made for Hing Fat.
Not single Hing Fat figure has any mark or stamp below base.

Hing Fat as toy soldiers related seller was first been known in early 1990 for a set of 10 poses pirates ,later cloned and copied by other Chinese brands all around. By then Hing Fat was listed as in Hong Kong.
Hing Fat was funded in 1973 and start selling most toys by 1980s .

Yet the Pirates attributed to “”Hing Fat”” brand and still sold by then but in a “7 poses format set only” were also sold also in 1993 by AMSCAN(See picture under Amascan pack bellow)

So Hing fat is not the maker of neither at all as AMSCAN Ltd -”a party supply distributor and owner of several retail stores such PARTY CITY,FCPU and others in US,CANADA and UK” did sold then under their brand same time HF did.

As to who is really maker of those early Pirates attributed to Hing fat is other thematic-.

About DGN logo in figures marked.
The  first 8 WW2 sets-(American,8th army,Germans,Chinese-Russian,French , Italian and Japanese) that come in late 2012-2013 ,not in 2014 and First reported in Stads forum as link above mentioned IN 2014.

DGN figures Where mark bellow in base(pedestal) as made by DGN see pictures of figures with mark bellow please and date production.
See picture of some samples stamped figures DGN soldiers.

In 2014 I did contact DGN that are a warehouses factories for many cheap line Toy else sellers and distributor
[1]. They direct me to the US distributors of their line.D&D distributors
Here in US they distribute in many location,here is main distribution link center in US.
D&D Distributors.

You can still order their Army set at very cheap price for resale else from then as well the civil wars sets under the DGN brand pack and mark in figures bellow.
I did reorder and sold distribute then here as well in 2014-2016 as I'm a seller in US as well.

Because the original packs come assorted in not correct all poses format,i took the work to redone then to give buyers all poses per set ,
I did it with the WW2 first 8 sets,the US civil war sets and the Revolution sets too.
Here is the link in stads blog where it was post how I was selling then.
xxx......... [aaaaaaaand - another one!]

In 2015/2016 the revolution and US civil war sets appear again ,now been sold by HING FAT in different pack and large plastic container playset in Amazon ,fun express,Ebay and other site line as well.
As Hing Fat distribute worldwide sine late 80s they move abroad more easy under this brand.
Yet some other distributor (Billy V) also had sold then with their logo mark in packs only too

The Sets sold in Russia are being distributed and sale under Brand (RED CAT )
see link and picture of bags/packs here. No HING FAT.

I had order then from Russia in bulk and selling then online now .
Last note.
The DGN civil war UNION soldiers had been produced in three different blue colors ,see last picture of then please.
While early DGN 2012 production come in light blue, later others under DGN were made in other blue shade colors.
See picture bellow of three main colors done for Union soldiers.

I hope this clear any doubts or question.
Best regards.

Sell Toy",

[1] At the top of the comment he doesn't know where they may be, yet at the bottom of the comment he's been in contact? Anyone who has contacted or tried to contact modern Chinese companies will know that both their websites and eMails are full of corporate headers and footers with so much contact information you can feel confused by the amount, yet somehow he's been in contact without knowing where they are located? Because he's making it up as he goes along again!

And let's look at that later line again "... are a warehouses factories for many cheap line Toy else sellers and distributor", this 'company' covers all the bases, it must be a huge operation, plural warehouses, plural factories, toy sellers (for MANY cheap lines) and distributor, they should have a footprint on the web at least a mile-wide; but . . . err . . . no . . . not a sausage! Not even on Alibaba and they have a thousand [for marketing purposes] made-up-names! Maybe he has a catalogue? No - he's just making it up as he goes along - again.

[2] It's not DGN-CH, it's DGN. CN, which we will see below (the denouement!) is important, but it also shows how he's so keen to weave this particular polished-turd of bullshit tale, he's not actually paying attention to what scant 'evidence' he's relying on for believability.

[3] "Hing Fat was funded in 1973 and start selling most toys by 1980s" Too funny! Does he mean 'founded'? I imagine they started selling before the end of 1973!

[4] He gives no evidence for this wild set of confused claims, I can assure you Amscan are no more than importers, what the US call Jobbers, they've been around for years, carry product from many companies in the Far East and have no connection with a 'DGN'.

[5] He's just told us it's not Hing Fat, but if he doesn't know who it is, how can he know it's not the manufacture who's put their name on some, Amscan are an imprter, Hing Fat are a contract manufacturer, as I've said before several times his knowledge of the HK/China toy industry is literally zero, he'll be posting 'proof' from a Japanese medical list next  - from an office in Port Tain Sang (don't look for it on a map!). And "other thematic" - Priceless!

The rest of it is just waffle, wittering on about other importers/jobbers, Russian sales, set contents, it's all padding, mostly repeating things already posted on the thread by others (he quoted one of their Haribo threads back at them on another Haribo thread and they thanked him! oder war es Heimo; mass nicht!) designed to A) make it seem like he knows what he's talking about and B) take the reader's mind off the fact that he's said he's contacted the company - but doesn't know where it is, or how to produce a link to it - indeed he links to everyone else he's associated with 'DGN', but not 'DGN'!

He then posted no less than seven more comments in a row, most of which carried figures well outside the scope of the thread which was titled '...WWII' - more padding!

He shows packaging from Amscan and some Russian packaging, nothing wrong with either for what they are, he shows D&D packaging, but calls it "...2014-DGN -D&D...", with no evidence to link it to the various claims jumbled into the preceding waffle, and there's nothing on the packaging to link D&D (another jobber - like Amscan) to a 'DGN'.

He shows loose figures of the ACW from Hing Fat, suggesting some are 'DGN' with no empirical evidence, but if you repeat a lie often enough - simple men will believe you!

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The Denouement

Then he also shows these . . .

Screen-capture - for research purposes
Suitably cropped, distorted and re-rendered in sepia

What we have here are two tampo- or wheel-printed codes, they are becoming quite common on figures, but have been common on other toys for well over a decade. They can - as we saw with the Star Wars stuff above - have many reason-d'être, from production codes, quality assurance or batch numbers, codified or plain commercial-data, line/wave codes, &etc.

The second-line is D&D's batch coding, leading you to their home page where you find "We use batch code www.ddst.us for CPSIA [The Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act] Section 103 tracking purposes"

The first lines read:

11/13 DGN, CN
11/12 DGN, CN

However, we must remember the Chinese read things backwards (or the other way from us, to them we are backwards! And as they outnumber us, technically - they are right!), so turning it round we get

CN, DGN 11/13
CN, DGN  11/12

What we actually have here is a simple production code, abbreviated (Brownie-point for 'lastwarrior') to fit on the base in a readable fashion and font-size, it means or translates to:

China; Design 11 [of/from] 13
China; Design 11 [of/from] 12

There is no 'DGN'.

What it actually means is 'design'. That's all folks! Dgn. is an abbreviation for the word 'design', pure and simple . You can also get DA, Des, Desg, Dsg., Dsgn., and Dsn., given it's already a short word, all a bit excessive I think you'll agree! Were I to need to abbreviate design I would use the fuller "Dsgn." (leaving out only the vowels) to avoid leaving room for the likes of Erwin Sell to generate bullshit!

While CN (not 'CH') is the international designator (and .url-code) for the Peoples Republic of China - because Switzerland nicked CH first! He has invented a whole group of 'warehouses, factories . . . else', from two base marks he can't read, while most (or too many) of the active, on-line hobby have gone along with it for 16-odd months!

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'DGN' was invented by Erwin Sell, making it up as he went along again, because - at the time - he still thought he was getting away with all the Blue Box and Redbox and other shit he'd been spouting on Stad's Stuff since he hit the ground bullshitting in the spring of 2015.

But it's not just a gullible moderator at FGle1:32 (I'm pleased to report they've dropped the 'DGN' in the last week or so!); a couple of the Russian dealers have taken to including 'DGN' in their evilBay listings (one of the reasons why it's an 'evil'-bay!), while Stadinger - as I've said - had already re-tagged all his posts.

This invented, false, non-existing company is all over the internet (as far as our hobby goes) because of the unquestioned, sometimes encouraged activities of one fuckwit - but there is no 'DGN'.

I said back in October 2016, if Erwin was encouraged, or allowed to keep getting away with it, he would damage the hobby, I repeated that in January, he has been encouraged and he has been allowed to get away with it (not by me!) and that damage is now occurring.

I also said he was a fake, a fraud and a phony and that he makes it up as he goes along - nothing I've  seen or heard recently from him has changed my mind, indeed with all the crap over Basa (Erwin's reward for these three back-links?), I've only added Paul Stadinger (his mentor) to the bullshitter's list.

Hing Fat, like most China producers, are primarily 'contract manufacturers', and all the figures issued by all the companies mentioned in Erwin's wittering have been manufactured by Hing Fat; period.

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Here's How It Works

Most of us see two and another two and assume four, we keep assuming four until we see 2 + 2 = 4 in the same place (a catalogue say), thereafter we proselytise Four Inc. as fact, with the sum of the empirical evidence - the catalogue.

Erwin sees two, sees a similar thing which looks like it 'could' be two, makes five and tell everyone 'It's Five Inc. all else.' as fact.

When someone questions him he uses frown-emoticons, point-at-rule-book-emoticons or a long string of question marks, once I think he's even used the wag-finger-emoticon.

On Stad's he used to use a handful of spurious eBay links and a temper-tantrum! Now he just bores his questioner to death with 7 comments - each correcting the previous, as he frantically Google's more 'fact stuff'.

Eventually he comes back with a long, convoluted story (in an unrecognised language) which might include his corresponding with the company (Basa, 'DGN'), visiting it's factories (Blue Box), lots of links to relatively unrelated or non-empirical sources, a back-link to the Jabbering Fuck and usually includes a mention of how he's a big-shot dealer in the US who handled tons of Fives, all marked - in marked packaging, with 'rare' colour variations. Recently he's been adding Google-translations, plagiarised from someone else's book.

Then I point-out it's really Four Inc.!

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The Other Suspects

There's a DGM (with an 'm', that's an M; not an N), they make whitemetal OO-gauge compatible motorcycles for model railway enthusiasts (including a piracy of the Airfix scooter from the old 'Civilians' set), but no 'DGN'.

Further away, you have Detlef Gummersbach (DGB), Dave Grossman Collections (DGC), Dorfner Grafik Design (DGD) and DG-France (DGF?) all involved with toys or collectables and don't let us get started on 'DRGM'! But no 'DGN'

Because Erwin Sell was making it up as he went along - again.

Other DGN's
DGN - Defense Guidance Notes
DGN - Differential Global Navigation [System]
DGN - Digital Group Number (computing)
DGN - Director-General, Navy/Naval...
DGN - Director-General, Nursing
Dgn. - Dragoon (cavalry type)
DGNS - Director-General National Service (UK, obsolete)
DGNS - Director-General, Nursing Services
Dgns. - Dragoons (plural, cavalry type)

As DGN (or .dgn) it is also a file format (rival to Autodesk's .dwg as .jpg'ed here sometimes) for CAD-graphics, meaning . . . er . . . design!


Anonymous said...

love reading your ongoing debates with stad and erwin, keep up the good work!

Hugh Walter said...

Thanks anon, although I have to say your comment looks like I might have written it myself from somewhere else! But as we saw them manipulating comments 'after the event' the other day, it would no great shakes if I had!

I've just added a screen-cap of a Google search which make for sad viewing!


Hugh Walter said...

Also - They're not really 'debates', I call them both fuckwits with empirical evidence (or at least some logic), they then deny it and call me a bigger witfock 'lair and all else', so I then point out that they were talking from a position of weakness which makes them double-fuckwitts, and we all wait for the next 'miss again'


Crixus and Apollo said...

Point taken about them not being debates, though I was trying to keep some gravitas, but being a former Sergeant Major in the British Army I can assure you I can swear like a trooper when required! I will say I admire your logic and reasoning with them both after reading the posts on Stads site.

Hugh Walter said...

Well Sir! As I only ever made acting 'lance-jack' I'll stiffen my back and agree with anything you say!

And yes, it's all a bit silly and if I didn't have Asperger's I'd probably be ignoring it all, but I do have it and as a consequence am rather enjoying the nonsense, despite it being a bit wrong, but then we are a bit wrong that's why they call us Aspergics!

6936 Walter, Sir!