F is for Follow-ups - Various, Old & New

A few follow-ups which have been accruing over the last few years, and an eclectic mix of bits enhancing older posts and a couple of more recent ones.

 

 

A couple more KUM pencil sharpeners, these being a small pistol, and a revolver with a drum magazine! We looked at KUM, with more relevance to the Blog's interests here;

 

https://smallscaleworld.blogspot.com/search/label/KUM

 

While this is an advert for pre-printed bookplates, with an emphasis on Sci-Fi / Fantasy, there's also a more traditional, even 'monkish' design. Found on the Internet and credited to David O. Knuttunen, it's the back cover ad from IF (not Galaxy), October 1966, and enhances this post;

 

https://smallscaleworld.blogspot.com/2023/04/b-is-for-bookplates-1-overview.html

 

BEM - Bug Eyed Monster, an acronym which has faded from favour!  

 

Meanwhile as a backup to the recent posts on Holly, Lik Be (LB) and the 'Gygax' monsters, on the left here is the copy of the Monster Manual, which I was using along with the later lever-arch file.

 

The other two, which came in at roughly the same time, are a fascinating book on the Tommy Gun rival to Action Man, made by Pedigree Toys, and it's surprising how much Tommy Gun stuff my brother and I had, thinking it was Palitoy-Hasbro, because most of our stuff tended to come from the Church fêtes and Jumble Sales of Heckfield and the surrounding environs, or the local tip (dump)!

 

While the other book is a useful history of Marx, an updated volume, I still don't have Vol.I in any version . . . it will turn-up, everything does! 

 

The Mechanoid bits in the smaller inset, came in a while back, and the two ladders are the real treasure, as none of mine had them, now two will be completed, and the radar disc will finish the green one, while a near complete one came-in recently, with nice turquoise legs - also needing a ladder!

 

Looking at them, I think I may have a couple more spares in the 'unknown ladder' drawer of my old multi-drawer cabinet! So when it all comes together I should have three complete, another one with two-each different coloured legs and the gold-accessories one still needing a ladder, along with a few bits - that's a fleet!

 

 

A couple of rather poor images of a set of the Marx copies, and a generic set of the same copies of Cherilea astronauts/spacemen, I actually managed to buy the foot-pump set, twice from the same seller, because I'd forgotten I'd bought the first one (generics from Italy), so we will look at them properly another day, but all three above adding to this post;

 

https://smallscaleworld.blogspot.com/2024/03/e-is-for-expelling-few-myths.html

 

While this will add a bit to this post from two years ago

 

https://smallscaleworld.blogspot.com/2023/05/e-is-for-eggcellent-effigies.html

 

He's a Humpty I shot at Sandown Park this weekend just gone, is a lead-solid from Sacul, and has had the base repaired/replaced.

G is for Gygax Monsters - Part VII - Round-up & Summery

OK, it made sense to post this in sequence, even if it's a new month! As bitty as last night's and more of the same really, but we'll see how we go, as I have these in front of me and can take more photos as I go!

 

 

So with Peter, Chris and Jon to thank, along with my own efforts, this is what's come-in over the last 18-months or so, none of which was in the shots taken between 2020-22 for the other posts, it makes for a typical 'mixed lot' and adds a couple of new bits, while confirming some of what's been said already.

 

The 'Friendly' Gygax,', on the left, who was never actually a Gygax, and goes best with the 'Disney', it's a pretty standard Holly Plastics one, with the longer marking. On the right, a clear copy/knock-off, following some of Holly's rules, re. paint/plastic colour, but maybe just following the now standard Chinasaur rules? However, with both the remains of MADE IN CHINA and HONG HONG, in different fonts, a much mucked-about with tool cavity, and a more recent, post 1990 issue?

 

Lik Be on the left, China copy on the right, the LB is a bit chewed, but the purple poser is still slightly smaller, so probably pantographed from the Lik Be, and then sharpened-up in the/on the tool. Again probably quite recent (the copy) so the moulds are still out there somewhere!

 

The Friendly came with two mates, two Ankylosaurs and a blatant rip-off copy, the copy having even less going for it than the crudeness of the Holly's. But that's the whole point, these are the 'Chinasaurs' whether recognisable dinosaur species, Gygax and associated monsters, or the more dodgy sculpts, their charm lies in the nostalgia - we all had some!

 

There are two kinds of Chinasaur, these; hardish polyethylene ones, and the soft, gape-mouthed PVC critters (with stretchy, silicon 'Rubber Jigglers' made of both types)*. What they all have in common is, poor sculpting, with arguable species sometimes, poor finish, with short-shots, flash & surface blemishes, a stab-and-hope paint scheme, no constant scale, a dirt-cheap retail price, and a rack near the checkout tills!

 

* The Fleetwood set we saw here.

 

It's a market which has almost totally changed now, with a lot of the cheapest dinosaur toys being actually quite good sculpts, realistic to not just species, but subtypes, and while there are poorer ones out there, the hollow-bodied cheepies from BJ Toys, for instance, even they are recognisable to what they are depicting, and better finished.

 

Another Holly Gygax on the left; Gator, with an unmarked, sub-scale, possibly sub-piracy to his right. The Holly has a partial MADE IN and the full HONG KONG, while the darker grey, shiny PE clone, has lost an arm, but is decorated to resemble the Holly!

 

More Holly, recognisable from the catalogues and previous posts, two Spiney's, with the full mark, as has the Bullette, while the LB Fan Whiskers is actually unmarked.

These are all non-Gygax, and with one exception - the green on grey plastic Sauropod - are all Holly, with the yellow standee (one of the questionable species Chinasaurs) having just the HONG KONG, and the pretender a clear CHINA in engineer's stamp lettering (a Roman caps font, sans), we have two unmarked, the Dimetrodon and 'Phoenix', and two with full marks.

 

Because the unmarked pair, are clearly Holly, we can assume the three main mark/no-mark types ran alongside each other, but assuming the larger-font stuff was a separate line for contracts like Enzinger's, is not so safe, they could have been earlier, later, or subcontracted., while it's a similar question over the obviously removed-mark issues, they could be client-requested, or post Holly ownership, or post-1997 handback?

 

This chap, with a larger HONG KONG stamp, is in the bag with them for now, but I sort of know he doesn't belong there. He has a friend, a guitar-playing tortoise, sitting on a box, and both can be found in this hard ethylene, or in an eraser rubber type material, and I think one has been seen as a key-ring, and I'm sure there's more to the full set. No evidence for him being Holly or Lik Be, but he could be the third 'Funimal' source, an outfit advertising in magazines as Colonial, and now I've 'shot my bolt' on the Gygax, a bit early, maybe, I might try to get the Funimals moved-up the long-queue lists!

 

So, to summarise these eight posts - 

• Gary Gygax and/or members of his team, took three of the more monstrous sculpts for their AD&D bestiary, the other [at least] nine sculpts, were never, and will never be 'Gygax Monsters', and they were all, always, Holly Plastics Factory / HP production, in the first place, later copied by various back-street outfits, ancient (1970's) and more modern, including one now-named firm who should have known better - Lik Be / LB. But they may have had permission?
• There may be a Kaiju element to one or two of the monster sculpts. 
• Holly were also, possibly the main producer/influencer of the typical, poor-quality, cheap rack-toy Chinasausrs, and had a stable of mould-tools with different marks, different sizes and even different sculpts of the same species.
• Holly may have farmed-out or licensed production to some of those back-street outfits, but that's never likely to be empirically known, nor their trading names, if they had them.
• In recent years China-made copies and reissues have been available of most, but the Owlbear Gygax and Diplocaulus amphibian dinosaur do seem to be harder to find, but, really - not $500 harder!
• All twelve, thirteen, however many monster/dragon-like fake dinosaurs are out there . . . will always be known as the "Gygax Monsters"!

And that's all folks! But we'll hopefully return to them in a few years when more stuff has turned-up, and maybe clear-up some of the remaining questions, especially over the number of tooling versions, the Jaru re-issues, clones, China-copies &etc!

G is for Gygax Monsters - Part VI - Marks / Marking & Minor Makes

So this would have been the final post in this series, but there is another, sort of follow-up, which I shot the other day, and as this is the 31st, I think I'll do this one now, and then maybe do the other as a proper F is for Follow-up, in a few days or a week or two?

 

 

Image previously seen in Part I.

 

This is looking at all the contents of those tubs and bags in the original birds-eye view of my samples, with a better image of the smaller bags, the yellow one, bottom left in the previously seen shot isn't looked at here, I'm pretty sure he's nothing to do the rest, and the two bags of Lik Be (LB) aren't looked at again.

 

'Gygax Monsters'

 

 Dinosaurs

 

These are the most common finds, and seem to tie-in with the 1970 catalogue images most closely, so we can assume they are all or mostly Holly Plastics production. The mark, which can be in a straight line or more tumbled, consists of MADEIN HONG KONG, with the three groups of letters seemingly one each of three stamps in the possession of the tool-makers.

 

The mark is also found on other rack toy stuff of the era, especially farm and zoo, where it will have 'Holly' significance in the future here, but also on Army Men of clearly different makes and generations, which suggests they (the little stamps) were bought-in by different toy makers, from a machine-tool/engineers supplier.

 

Note however that the MADEIN is slightly larger than the HONG and KONG, not something you find with say, those 25mm Britains and Crescent Khaki Infantry clones, where they are all the same size and in perfect line, suggesting that the prefix may have been added to the cavities later, or purchased separately?

 

 

The above musings partly explained by these, basically some of the missing poses, which only have the HONG KONG, and not the 'madein', so it appears we are looking at a firm whose marking policy was neither a priority, nor rule-based! Again, they match the illustrations in the catalogue, so we can be pretty confident we're looking at more Holly stuff.

 

Dodgy photograph, but you can see, for instance, the standing yellow dino's above, in the catalogue in the brown plastic of other models in the range, while there are two Dimetrodons, a smaller better sculpt, and a larger 'gape-mouth' one on longer legs, possibly copied, by Holly, from an earlier 'rubber-jiggler' type? Not necessarily their own.

 

I'm sure there are lots of Holly products in the not so well sorted Dinosaur pile, and when we return to these, in a few years, probably, I will have hopefully brought more together.
 

 

These, however, matching most of the above in poses, plastic colours, paint colour or style, are all totally unmarked! Different contracts? Duplicate cavities, earlier or later generations? I suspect everything above was Holly, and it was pretty hit-and-miss as to what you got.

 

Remember, with the Einzinger set, clearly a Holly-originating card, we had some marked with just the dinosaur's name, others marked with another MADE IN HONG KONG font altogether, a more standard engineers stamp lettering, closer to a DIN type - in both senses of the word!

 

Note also, we are getting different sizes of the same basic sculpt, and for some there are clear small, medium and large versions.

 

So returning to the other line-up image, and we're going to look at the two larger samples in a sec', but first, you should be able to read my dodgy notes if you open the image in a new window and click on any plus-cursor you get. The annotation is thus;

• * - Probably Holly Plastics Factory
• X - Probably not Holly
• # - Likely from Holly, or old Holly tools 

So the big Tyranosaur (middle right), is one as supplied to Enzinger, to his left are four mono-coloured/undecorated (late production?) ones, which are otherwise all Holly, while the two smallies on the left of that row have clearly had Holly's marking removed, for reasons we'll never know, but equally likely to be contractual (end-user asking Holly to mask identifying marks), or, ex-Holly tools?

 

Below him, the other Enzinger mark on a Steggy'. Top left is probably a piracy, while the bag bottom middle seem to be another Holly marking variation, and we'll look at the other two bags quickly now;

Above the T-Rex, we have CHINA marks, but following Holly's rules on plastic and paint colours, almost certainly closer to 1997, than 1970? And a step on the way to the last lot, and the end of this post, below.

 

However, after all shots, annotation and above blub has been cast, looking at them in close-up, the fan-whiskers have been fused into a lumpen 'wing', so these may well be copies pretending to be Holly, either with permission or as straight band-wagon figures, as discussed in Part I?

 

Equally, they could be reworked tooling, deliberately thickened to ensure proper moulding . . . it's never going to be 100% clear with this stuff, millions were made, over decades! And . . . that IS one reason why they have a separate bag.

 

These are Holly'ish, and I suspect they are Holly, from the same era/generation/batch as the Enzinger, but include the unusual red-plastic version of a Triceratops, and the only example of the 'Disney' dinosaur I mentioned in the original list, he may be a Disney thing, he looks familiar? But overall, they conform to more Holly 'rules' than they confound.

 

These are far more recent, and have a mix of MADE IN CHINA, or CHINA A (B, C, etc...) markings, I believe these are from Holly tooling, whether it was still Holly manufactureing is not so clear, there are still a couple of Holly's, but in auto-parts, medical components and such-like, with different logo's, and one with only a 20-year history can't be 'our' Holly.

 

We did see them before, and they seem to be Jaru-issued as seen in the sets Brian Berke sent us from Liverpool, and of which I then found a bag-of myself, while the loose sample above was a charity-shop purchase who got a post at the time, they can all be found under the Jaru Tag, but I should add a Holly note?

 

The odd-one out, if we assume these are from Holly tooling, whoever actually made them, is the stripey tailed Parasaur, who seems to be a better sculpt, but Holly did have a largish one in their inventory . . .

 

 . . . Bottom right, mostly hidden by the card-art, but the same beast, with a newer, bigger Dimetrodon and large Mammoth sculpts, so it all ties-in nicely! But we don't have to assume they are from Holly tooling, they could be copies, or half-and-half, ex-Holly and new tooling, it's not an exact science! And if anyone has one of those electric-blue and heliotrope-pink Mammoths going spare? . . . It's a huge gap in my collection - how leery is that!

G is for Gygax Monsters - Part V - Lik Be (LB) Piracies

I am assuming, from size, style and numbering within the wider LB oeuvre, that these appeared around the same time, and in similar sets to that which we looked at here, and indeed, with that set called Monster Fantasies, may have been another/the other assortment with the same header-card and cavemen?

 

Knowing what I do about Google and it's SEO (which isn't much!), and what with that being the third time I've linked to the same article, in a few days, in posts also multiple-mentioning Gygax Monsters, it will give the bots something to mulch on, and if it annoys the 'LP' dilettantes at the same time, well . . . so much the better, and my work here would be done, before we've seen the images!

These came in as a 'clean lot', suggesting that either the previous owner had two sets and lost an orange 'Friendly Monster', or that the original set had two of each, with a similar AWOL orange monster scenario, and, even without empirical evidence, we can be pretty sure they are Lik Be's, as their numbering is midstream* with the farm 'funimals', and includes the two previously seen prehistoric mammals, from the linked-above set.

 

Listing

No. A111 - Macrauchenia (? Prehistoric camel/giraffe ancestor/ant-eater) [seen before]

- 

No. A122 - Crustacean 'Gygax Monster' (Smaller copy of prone Rust Monster Chinasaur) 
No A123 - Wavey Fan Whiskers 'Gygax Monster' (Smaller copy of waving Chinasaur)

No.A124 - ?
A 125 - Ardvaark 'Gygax Monster' (Smaller copy of standing Chinasaur, also 'Armadillo Man') 
No. A126 - Dinocerata-like (? Large, tusked mega-mammal) [seen before]
127A - Friendly 'Gygax Monster' (Smaller copy of horn-nosed, cartoony dinosaur) 
A.128 - Wavey Winged Whiskers 'Gygax Monster' (smaller copy of waving Chinasaur) 
A.129 - Spiney 'Gygax Monster' (Smaller copy of double-row, spine-backed Chinasaur)

 

If LB copied the Gator/Lizard Man sculpt, he/she/it could be the A.124? Likewise, any of the missing ones, but that's probably the most obvious? Pure conjecture though!

 

* To be honest, once you plot all the known Lik Be / LB (previously ID-IDL-ID Ltd-LP) stuff, the conclusion is that the numbering is either pattern codes or cavity numbers, as the Funimals are all over the place, these and the prehistoric minis are split, with the cavemen between, a jump to the 200's of the Wild West sets with divers, fishermen and Spacemen/alien-robots never numbered, but surely filling some of the block gaps, while a few 500, 600 and four figure numbers exist for sets, or what appear to be earlier hard polystyrene production only? There are also a few B-codes, with the Explorer Cars (space tanks) having their own system!

Standard Holly Plastics on the left, you can see how much smaller the Lik Be copies are, it's literally a magnitude smaller; about half the size, and a quarter the mass? As OO is to O-gauge, or 1:64th is to 1:32?

 

That's it, short and sweet, the Lik Be chapter is more of a side-bar to the Gygax Monster's tale, and while unusual for LB to be pirating like that (obviously now we recognise the mini dinosaurs (A.70's) as being reduced-size Holly clones too), they did, also, seem to have knocked-off some of the Western Christmas cake decorations as well, so they had prior 'form' for copying. 

G is for Gygax Monsters - Part IV - Enzinger & Co., via Holly

So to a German (I think) rack toy which is otherwise all Holly Plastics, and a better look at some of the marking, which all comes from the same stable.

 

Original sales image, this was from an outfit called CardboxDE I think, I had bought quite a bit off them, over the previous year or two, but after the full Boris Brwreakshit deal of February 2020, they got very silly about postage and selling'shipping to the UK (as did some US sellers), cancelled an order for 40-odd quid, didn't reimburse me and tried (against eBay's rules) to get me to re-order on another platform, so they got my forty quid, I didn't get the stuff, and they've lost hundreds in repeat orders, and get slagged-off for being thieving shits (I've still got the emails), here! All a bit stupid, and that 40-odd quid means I get to use all their images!

 

 

A full scan of the card as I decided to de-bag the set for this series of posts. Some of the images are dated 2020, some 2021, so you can see how these posts build on Picasa and why there's over 900 in the long queue, yet sometimes I'm stuck to post something, the [admittedly mild] OCD that comes with Asperger's means I sometimes need things to be just right, or I'm waiting to take a specific shot, or something!

 

And it can sit there for years, a bit silly really, as I can happily post absolute shite, without conscience, on another occasion! The vagaries of the human mind!

The contents from both sides, the suspicion with this set is that the contents were constant, from bag-to-bag, and needing more of some sculpts than others (in the more random offerings), may be one reason for the variations in Holly's output, and markings, and the likelihood that subcontractors or duplicate lines were used for some jobs/contracts.

 

Certainly the seller's open set, closed set, and my set, all have identical contents, with the plastic colour as constant as the species count! Not that all the species, are all that clear!

 

 

Enzinger stamp and the HP of Holly Plastics both present on the card, I can't decipher the centre of the Enzinger stanp though. One assumes Enzinger were in the same vein as Woolbro or WHC, over here, having their moniker added to otherwise generic rack-toys, only in this case with the Holly logo also left on.

 

The common bird-footed Tyrannosaurus Chinasaur!

 

Six bog-standard, dense polyethylene, chinasuar sculpts, and among the commoner of Holly's output, with this set, four of them have the dinosaur's name stamped into them and nothing else (I'd previously only found one in a similar vein), the other two having a rough MADE IN HONG KONG similarly stamped, the chonky standee, and the duck-billed dino'.

 

To which are added two prehistoric mammals, neither of which has any mark at all! Both of which are the ones copied by Lik Be/LB, in the set we looked at here;

 

https://smallscaleworld.blogspot.com/2020/08/m-is-for-monster-fantasies.html

 

Which were tentatively identified at that time as a Macrauchenia (on the left here) and a Dinocerata-like animal, whose odd horn arangement may be due to undercuts/the difficulties of producing in plastic, especially in the late 1960-early 1970's? LB also copied some of the Gygax Monsters, and some non-'Gygax' monsters, which we will see in the next post of this series.

 

 

But the definitely 'Gygax' Bullette, is the final member of this nine-count set, and again unmarked, which is unusual for this beast, who is usually marked with a neat MADEIN  HONG KONG, as three separate stamps, sometimes lined-up, sometimes a bit wobbly, but here, not marked; again pointing to multiple tools or cavities, or something! He is, though, in the 'standard' Holly paint-job. More on the markings in the last two posts of the series!

G is for Gygax Monsters - Part III - Hans Postler

I'm pretty sure these are all copies of Holly, rather than Holly product, and from the leery colours of both plastic and casually sprayed paint, the 'Chine' and the bar code, mid-to-late 1980's or more laikely second half of the 1990's? But an interesting chapter in the Gygax Monster story, with most of the monsters in the one set and the possibility that other assortments may have had the missing sculpts?

 

Header card, much of a muchness, and a pure coincidence that Hans Postler and Holly Plastics both have an HP monogram!

 

Bag and contents which we're going to dissect below!

 

Six more conventional dinosaurs, all copies of Holly's products, and, at least five of them (green and brown) also used by whoever produced my favourite childhood set of silicon rubber dinosaurs, which we saw here, in Fleetwood colours. There are soft silicon copies of the Gygax Monsters too, once you start looking for them, they turn-up everywhere, like LB (for Lik Be) astronauts!

 

Two cavemen, also ex-Holly, although originally Marx, MPC or someone!

 

The 'meat & two veg' of the business, seven of the Gygax Monsters, including two named, the Bulette (top left) and Rust Monster (bottom right), the oddest, and hardest to find after the Owlbear, is the Chinese dragon, which I failed to see on the Holly carded set, and had to add, an hour after I published last night, doh!

 

The one I call Gator is called Lizard Man by some people, but as an unnamed 'Gygax', can be whatever you want to call him! Likewise the one which I call Ardvark, some call 'Armadillo' or Armadillo Man.

 

On the subject of naming: some sources mention Kaiju, Ultra Man and 'Pachisaur'/Pachisaurs, but most of the mutterings don't agree with each other, and seem to be people trying too hard to make connections, links or a narrative which really isn't there. A couple of guys, mucking about, chose three monsters, at random, out of a bag, and named them, just the three!

 

In one case Pachisaur seems to be being used just to sell 'merch', while another guy has a very detailed graphic, but the two most important links are greyed-out, because, as he himself admits, it's not clear if they exist as links at all! Another Gygax AD&D monster was called Pachisaur, but doesn't resemble any of the Holly Sculpts closely.

 

Scenics

 

Close-up's of the Phoenix

 

Plastic colours and distribution.

 

Polyethylene play mat.