I haven't covered all the Supreme medievals in the last . . . errr
. . . 9 posts; with this one, nor, indeed, on the whole blog's past posts
(linked to individually below), but I have had a good crack at them, and will
return to these in the future, for the missing items and a better version of
this post which is not quite as polished as I would have it, had I had all the 'tools'
in one place!
Supreme also produced a second set of the Crusaders in 54mm, but pirated
from King & Country and Zvezda sculpts, while Zvezda also provided the donors for a
set of Russian (Nevski'eque) knights in the same 54mm soft-vinyl line. The Vikings,
Saracens, and Greeks also cross into this, if only by dint of the Greco-Roman
poses they put in the cheaper 50mm line and the Silver Knight set.
And I've been doing it in a rather bitty
fashion, a few shots here, a set-post there, some website images, an feeBay
image, a scan or two, some more figures, a donated figure or few, another
evilBay image, it's been a rather amorphous process, we will return to them in
a year or two and re-do this post as a more complete listing, with everything
brought together and re-shot, with other posts answering the more specific
questions or filling the gaps.
So, we'll start this post with a return to
the 'Supreme' (SP Toys Industrial Company Limited) Silver Knights, they are the
biggest, and probably the oldest of the Medieval offerings from Supreme, come
in many formats and are usually marked-up to the parent, whichever
importer/jobber might have flung a sticker on the packaging somewhere.
Shades of Britains Detail in the chain-mace and moulded-in sword guys, and
note the catapult is the one which was issued by Halsall with the 50mm Italeri
knock-offs.
On the left here is a larger version of the
set we looked at a week ago, this having all the accessories and more
horses, with the same wagon traces/harness as the Wild West sets. This set
branded to Supreme was imported by Express Gifts, whether direct from
Supreme who had their own trade page, or through someone like Toy Major is a moot point.
The set on the right is a little more problematical,
it comes-up in a Supreme search, but
has no obvious Supreme link, so the
'Supreme' must be hidden in legacy/metadata
behind the image, however Shaun of the Fantasy Toy Soldier Blog, has included
it in his listing.
And the castle is a very close copy of the known
Supreme one in the other sets, above
and below it in Shaun's linked post, but it's not quite the same, neither do
the figures look exactly the same as other Supreme
figures, but the horses, especially the two with the lager bases, are
identical, so the weight of circumstantial evidence suggests an SP Toys product
Two other connections are the very yellow
gold used in both sets and the fact that - that side of the Pond at least -
they were both imported by Stevens
International, who also carried the Silver Knights sets in the US (still
are?). In fact comparing the two forts, the door is the same, the walls/towers
differ, so another 'clue'?
Then you realise the paint (antiqued washes
in black over gold and silver) is hiding the fact that they are the Toy Major 'Deetail' knights! It IS
another Supreme set, but smaller
figures and less accessories as a budget 'Dragon
& Troops' against the more prestigious 'Dragon & Knights'?
Back to the Silver Knights for a second, they have also featured in a couple of
the previous round-ups' comparison shots (links below/through this post), with
the next most common set of Supreme knights, which I call the 'Tiger' or
'Deetail' knights, because I first encountered them with Tiger Hobbies stickers/labels around 1997/98 and bought them for someone
else (I didn't collect the larger scales then) in a shop in West Sussex, since
when I've only found them (several times) with Strawberry Group tags!
They are usually fully marked-up underneath
with the TM moniker for Toy Major, but I think smooth based ones
also exist, and you can find them in silver, black or the same bright
yellow-gold which runs through Supreme's
output from the 20mm mini-knights to the current/near-current Saracen
camel-troops.
The gold ones are not as common as the
other two, but siege engines (in the pack on the left) tie in with other Supreme output, and they have the common
horses. I think this set is almost as old as the Silver Knights (1990's) and has guided the poses of some of the
subsequent sets. Mounted Silver and
'Deetail' compared on the right.
Now, the four on the right are Strawberry Group tagged, but TM marked, and I think we have seen them
before, but they may be another four, however they are not the ones I bought
about a year ago, for this post/series of posts, which has/have been a while in
the gestation! I don't even know what happened to those, nor one or two which
came in with other lots (except the
mounted figure above), so I think we're getting these guys again?!! I'll do them properly
another day . . . with the mounted chaps!
On the left though are a couple of Simba blisters, which show a variation
of the aubergine (or avocado?) shaped-base horse, of import as it reappears in
a set which - originally - I had no idea was Supreme, as it's so utterly shit . . .
. . . what I call the 'Construction Worker'
set (lower image), as they look like 1950/60's American construction or
rig-workers with their tin/aluminium safety helmets! And - they're painted like cheap play set road-workers!
Above are some more of the 'Deetail'
knights, these seem to have thinner bases than the TM ones, which would figure if they are the smooth-based versions, because
you remove the TM tool and replace it
with a blanking set which can be deeper, but all Supreme I'm sure. Also the fantasy set above seems to have an
archer, he would seem to be rarer that the gold versions!
The 'Construction Worker' set, actually
appeared in several sets from Simba
(as a command element or sienge-engine crew?) alongside either the 'Deetail'
knights (Kings Castle sets), or the
ones we'll look at in a minute, usually as one each, three foot and a mounted,
with a couple of dozen of the better figures.
Remember that wall section I suggested you mentally
to hold-on to last week, well, here is the replacement, this is basically my
set, with two standard Supreme siege
engines, and no assault-tower, in Hamleys
packaging. The knights however are smaller versions of the 'Deetail' ones, with
uneven cloud or kidney bases (like the Supreme
Pirates and Skeletons).
But the wall sections have wider buttresses;
my set's walls are from the smaller castles sold by Simba as Kings Castle (now
below) with only four round towers and
the different figures as noted above - because it's loose I don't know what Toy Major called it, but it may originally
have been 'Knights Adventure'?
We looked at them here, and again the other day here with the Toy Major
for Simba packaging, but again these
are the earlier, PVC-vinyl painted version.
These are from the current Toy Major website, but the graphics on
the lower shot conforms to the recent Simba
Dragon Knight Castle Playset! The upper one, clearly the budget version has
another set of figures altogether, the Toy
Major marked (not with TM, but the newer number/letter codes also found on
their wild animals and mini-dinosaurs) Knights
Adventure figures.
While the lower one has the 'question mark'
figures we looked at last Wednesday, with the older wall section, which
is why I'm tagging them Supreme and Toy Major! Note also Toy Major issued them painted or
unpainted, Simba unpainted only, if -
as some idiots would have you believe - these were Simba 'production', the opposite would be more likely.
They previously appeared a while ago as protagonists
for the Toy Major Tomb Warrior
skeletons, but only in blue-on-silver, none of the red-liveried figures found in my
fort set.
Also from Toy Major's website, and now flagged Action World - Knight Collection, these were the Knights Adventure figures, long running,
similar issues to the 'Livonian' knights, and available in a dull gold, bronzy brown
and the black & silver.
Note standard Supreme siege weapons, but different archer's mantlets to the bigger Simba sets (which are six-plank with
cruciform aperture - same sets Walmart
issue with the 'Livonian' knights - now below), while the prison cage is from
the old Silver Knights sets!
On the left, also from Toy Major's website in the last few days, on the right Wilco-badged versions from about
six/seven years ago, on feebleBay the other day (I think the owner has
separated them into Cowboys and Indians, they should both be mixed?), and I
think we looked at the Wild West and GI's under another brand a few years ago?
And as I've mentioned what I'm calling the
'Livoniann' knights, here they are, from an anonymous seller on Alibaba,
looking to be softer PVC-alike, similar to the Halsall-HTI sets of Italeri rip-offs we looked at here - Red on Black Set and here - Green on Silver Set, a few years ago.
Totally new siege weapons, of the
simplistic, infant type, but, while not clear, the logo in the bottom-right of
the header cards is the same as the unpainted ones we looked at last week here,
it's the Ancient Wars logo.
And here they are in Starlux branding, with a new fort in two colours, both on Amazon
right now! Simba bought the
intellectual property of Starlux
around 2010, but don't seem to have done much with it, and there's no sign of
the old Starlux tools, so they are
only using the brand to shift more Supreme
product.
And while a few days ago I might have
conceded they were big enough to be going to Supreme in their own right, the fact that they are sharing artwork
with Toy Major suggests that's who
they are getting it from/going through.
It was always Mr. Sell's biggest lie, that Simba made or designed any of this stuff
and while I dealt quite well with all that, here, it's worth considering
the following;
-
Everything in the various
generations of Simba knights/castle
sets is a mix and/or match of stuff previously/variously seen by/from Toy Major, Walmart, Hamleys, Halsall, Express Gifts, Tiger, Strawberry Group, Stevens International, and many others including dozens of phantom brands
on Amazon, evilBay and Alibaba.
-
Most of them happily admit
somewhere on the packaging it's all made in China - or earlier; Hong Kong
-
Several of them also handle
other Supreme stuff (Tomb Warriors)
which Simba hasn't
-
Simba sometimes take the simpler variant
And while it's true that since 2019 Simba have owned a factory in Hong
Kong-China, it's the Jada factory they've
bought, and Jada are an alloy die-caster, not a plastic injector! Now we've been
covering Jada here since the first Nano-Metal mini came on the scene back
in 2016/17, and I've covered them at London's annual Toy Fair including this
year; I can assure you Jada's
catalogues have not changed, they are not suddenly full of unique-sculpt, plastic
figures, branded to Simba!
Simba (now of course Simba-Dickie
Group) have only ever been a jobbing importer, and while they are growing
and have the potential to become a major producer in the future, right now they
are using Starlux as a brand-mark,
and leaving Jada to do what they do
best. They also own several other brands now, but the same points apply, one's
a soft-toy maker, another does rotary-moulded play equipment, a third is a
French die-caster.
The 'Livonians' have been around for a bit,
and the gold ones here are older, polyethylene ones, marked as other Toy Major stuff, the two current-colour ones
(Simba, Toy Major and dozens of phantom-brands) are bottom left.
On the right is a set being sold on Amazon
by a Sunny days Entertainment,
looking a bit Blue Box, but Toy Major was also doing those tubs with a terra-formed
lid a few years ago . . . "Rapunzel,
Rapaunzel" . . . I think we had that joke the other day, but; new
tower!
These are probably not related to anything
above, not Supreme, not Simba, maybe not even Toy Major (read on), but are copies of
two sets above, combined. Some of the ex-Italeri set split onto two cards by Halsall / HTI (links below the
'Livonian' triple image above) and some of the Knights Adventure figures.
But . . . here in both Halsall and HTI
packaging, now; the painted originals were also Halsall,
so if HTI as a smaller end-user
(smaller than Simba and the evidence
is they - Simba - are still going
through Toy Major) would probably
have been using Toy Major, would Toy Major have allowed them to be
carrying knock-offs at the same time? It suggests that actually Supreme may have sanctioned these,
perhaps sub'ing from a minor maker if they didn't do them themselves, to cover, or
allow Toy Major and its clients to
cover, that $£€
1.50/1.99 slot?
That's all pure speculation of course, but
it's odd that they should be back-to-back or even side-by-side like that? The
one on the right is a recent generic as currently carried by Kandy Toys, and the HTI are still out there too, the Haslall to HTI brand-mark
change was only a few years ago.
We looked at them here.
And briefly the previous year when I
didn't know so much about them.
And because the Black-rock castle is there;
We also looked at one here.
And a non-'Blackrock' generic here.
Interestingly, given what's come out since
and above, I think they are all three Supreme
now, the yellow-gold of the two Blackrock
sets, and the fact that the other Stevens/generic
set has the same 20/22mm figures in a different colour-way.
But, on the back of the window-box it
actually shows the larger 25/28mm figures with the ovoid bases, again
suggesting they are all coming from the same place, as I stated back then,
indeed, while the knowledge improves, I don't feel a strong need to correct
anything I've said in any of the earlier posts really!
This is a poor image from the now-gone Marshall's catalogue, and seems to show
the same ethylene/knock-off set but with some in gold plastic, the siege
machines being the same as the Halsall
ones that came with the fully-painted vinyl's. Kandy Toys seem to have lifted the Marshall's crown, as can be seen by their carrying the cheapies
now, sans ballista!
This is from a newer Simba set; Ritterburg [Knight's
Mount] Blackmore Castle, and shows a
nice Middle-Eastern fort, with all-new figures. They could be from another party/manufacturer,
but the way everything above seems to lead back to Supreme (unless you're Erwin or his supporters), and given the
colorways - red/blue and gold/silver - the similarity of the riders to other
figures from other sets above and the previous weirdness of the 'construction
worker' set, I'm leaning toward Supreme
for these too! Even the horse painting follows the 'rules'?
While we're trying to find non-Supreme medievals, this is amusing, and
I'll follow the outcome, should there be one. Among all the myriad phantom brands
hawking the latest iteration of the 'Livoians', are these images.
If you look closely, the 'Livonian' riders
have been photoshopped into the larger image and are a different
resolution/lighting, the wall looks to be a picture cut out of a larger image
and the two towers also look not quite right, like the floor's uneven?
However, the lines of figures look
interesting, but I suspect they might turn-out to be small-scale board-game
type figures? It'll be interesting to see if they start turning-up, but among
all the genuine stuff on eBay, Alibaba and Amazon, there are some fraudulent
entries/sellers and I don't trust this lot to turn-up matching the image much!
A couple of shelfies which Peter Evans took
a few years ago, already on the blog somewhere, but I'm reusing it because it's
'lost' in a mixed post, looking very Supreme,
but actually a mix of various donor-copies including Supreme sculpts, it's a generic 'big box' of the sort that get
piled near the till-area of general stores at Christmas time. A solid foam or
rubberised slot/stack-together fort and various copy figures including vintage
French and British sculpts.
Mentioning Peter, he pointed out yesterday
(Tuesday, this is taking a while to
edit!) that the unknown Romanesque set I published late Monday/early-hours
of Tuesday, were also a Simba
thing, and a search reveals they came in a specific line variously 'Superplay Falcon Castle', 'Hrad Falcon Castle', 'Falcon Castle II' &etc.
Their similarity to both the late Adventure Knights and the 'Livonians'
(in polyethylene), along with the horse similarities suggest a connection, Halsall may get away with concurrent straight
piracies, but if major players like Supreme,
Toy Major and Simba were participating, one feels some kind of permission or
license must have been involved?
And if that's the case, the similar set of Silver Knight copies/scale-down
solids which we looked at here, might also be sharing the story of the
motor-cycle helmeted Romans above? They are a similar material and both the
chocolate brown and black are parallels. However both sets can still be regarded
as the bigger question-marks where Supreme's
involvement is concerned
Mentioned in passing above, the Walmart set with the 'Livonian' sculpts,
not showing in their catalogue (which may be down to my browser) but still findable
on the 'web.
Another question-mark set is the half-Roman set we looked at a couple of months ago, I'm sure some of you noticed that nonsense
the other day . . . really? A couple of fuzzy images, no weapons and some
bullshit about rarity earns you brownie-points does it? In your eyes! And it's
the way they pretend they can't possibly have seen an article on a Blog we all
know they follow religiously!
They are not rare, or hard to find; they are new production;
they are all over Amazon and Alibaba, I think mine came from evilBay (brand-new
for less than a tenner?), they have been flagged Supreme, by a loyal reader and are being handled by Toy Major rival Liberty Imports, where they go to Creative Kids in the US, are unbranded
generics here, and can be found as double figure sets (without separate weapons?)
from ArtCreativity (looks like a
phantom brand) on Amazon.
$20 for a set of everything, or $15 for double-x-half-armed figures? The choice is yours!
Fuzzy images and fake 'data' or all the above? The choice is yours!
Late addition! The King Castle with a mix of the early painted PVC Adventure Knights and the 'Construction Workers'
in the same set.
Which leaves the other iteration of
small-scale figures, which we covered here, also Toy Major so almost certainly Supreme,
and the same sculpts as King/Adventure
knights, the Black Rock and Blackrock's; the commonest used sculpts of
all these sets connected to Supreme-Toy
Major-Simba and probably in that order! The carry cases also mirroring the
ones in the sets we looked at, at the start of this sequence, last week!
A subject we will return to as more becomes
clear, and I will do a better pictorial comparison of them all at some point. What
we have by way of a recap;
-
Silver Knights (60mm)
-
'Deetail' Knights / Knight's
Castle / Dragon & Knights (54mm)
-
'Construction Workers (54mm)
-
Adventure Knights (20, 25 45,
50mm)
-
Livonian Knights (50mm)
-
'Italeri' Crusaders (50mm, see
also below)
-
Mixed copies (45/50mm crumbly
ethylene)?
-
Ritterburg Blackmore Knights
-
Multicoloured Oddities?
-
'Castle' copies (definite
knock-offs)
-
Superplay Romanesque (40mm)
-
Silver Knight solid copies?
(54mm)
-
Liberty Romans/Knights?
(54/60mm)
And from the current/near current 54mm
header-carded, bottle-bagged figure sets, as imported into the UK by Tiger Hobbies, direct from Supreme.
-
Saracens (sold as large set with
camel cavalry, or as small sets; split)*1
-
Alexander Nevski*2
-
'Italeri' Crusaders I &
II (sold separately or together)*3
-
'Zvezda/King & Country' Crusaders
*1 -
Italeri sculpts
*2 -
Zvezda sculpts
*3 - Mounted figures are
Zvezda sculpts
And many thanks for input/samples to Brian
Berke, Chris Smith, John Begg and Peter Evans.
