T is for Tilnar Art

Something completely different now, chunky 'arty' aluminium, but we don't get many chances to get the Aluminium Tag dusted off, so it's overdue! I saw these Tilnar Art products, at the Spring Fair in Birmingham, back in early February, and loved the fact that they had the same deep, metallic lustre as those Jada figures I like, so here they are!

 

Various products, including dinosaurs and penguins.

 

Longhorn Cattle, or not so shaggy Highlanders!

 

Deer.

 

Also drilled for keychains.

 

Love these, deep, almost glassy-red Elephants, in various sizes!

 

Art Deco'esque Elephants!

A blue family of the other design, just visible in the background. 

 

Puffins.

 

relief-flat Angels.

 

I had a chat with the chap behind Tilnar, and it seems to be pretty-much a one-man band, although there were staff, so a growing enterprise, and by using recycled aluminium, helping to try and save the planet!

Obviously aimed at the gift and tourist markets, expect to find them in little bijou boutiques about the place, or gift-shops, while on your travels.

T is for Two . . . err . . . Four, Engines!

I picked up a couple of rather interesting aircraft models a week ago last Saturday, neither of which seem to be elsewhere on the Internet, so we'll look at them both and thoughts are welcome on these two mysteries, the first is a kicker for Brit's . . . 

. . . as I suspected first that Victory Toys were likely a US firm, before finding it (as an aluminium Jeep manufacturer) in the archive as being a Dutch/Netherlands maker, but the point is, it's inescapable that this composition B17 Flying Fortress is a world away from the lumpen models we've seen here previously from Zang for Timpo. I don't know if the dodgy-looking characters (possibly a dog, a human and a duck) have any significance, or are a further clue to anything?

 

I wondered if at first it was aluminium, Victory seem to have made figures in the same material, as well as the Jeeps (all around 60mm), but it's definitely a composition; you can see where light rust on the prop-shafts is just starting to split the cases on the port-engines. Also, the varnish, where it hasn't worn off, is starting to bubble, like the unit/nationality shield transfers on a WWII  German helmet I used to own - clearly reacting with the paint underneath.

 

Only, it's a very finely finished model, as you can tell from this comparison of another recent airborne discovery here at Small Scale World, the Zang B29 Superfortress, you can see it's a much cruder beast altogether, and you wonder if, at that level of finess, we don't still have composition toys, but that's forgetting the frangibility of the material, and the fact that it's only survived because the box has soldiered-on, getting a bit battered, defending the contents!

 

Typically, the B17's from Zang which we also only recently looked at, are in storage, but that will give us an excuse to return to the whole Air Wing one day, as there are some lead ones too, and a wax one!  Going by the scale on the wing of the next, below, these are about 1:300th scale?

 

The other 'plane I found that day was this cast-aluminium MR2/Mk.2 Shackleton, long range maritime-patrol/reconnaissance aircraft. The official recognition model was a 1:72 scale celluloid/phenolic model, made by Cruver, and most of the desk-models I could find are far more detailed/larger, so I was minded to suspect an apprentice piece, however, the 52/986 looks like a stock-code, so it may still be a recognition model, or perhaps a targeting-aid, but I'm not sure that I'd be very happy if our gunners were practising on models of our own aircraft?

 

Now, 52 could be the year, and 986 is close to codes used by Avro for both the Shackleton (696/716) and Lincoln Bomber (694/695), so this could be an Avro factory/design office model? I can see there's still more to learn about this!

 

The small recess shows no sign of glue or fixings, so seems to be designed to fit easily on a stand of some kind, and be removed again, while the yellow-brown paint is crudely done, compared to the all-over green, but seems to be original?

 

And here's another thought, the Shackleton has direct descendancy from the Lancaster, via the Lincoln, and I wonder if the fact that around the world, three Lancaster's have now (I believe) been rendered airworthy, is down to the number of Shackleton parts still kicking around here or in South Africa?

H is for How They Come In - Sandown - September, Part 1

Catching-up with the show-repots as another Sandown swings towards us, I was as frugal at the last show as I had been in London earlier in the year, but still managed a fair pile of plunder to share.

These were cheap as chips, probably cheaper, these days! The sort of stuff we used to find in our Christmas Stockings back in the 1960's, Japanese, litho-printed tinplate whistles, it was the cowboys which attracted me, but in the end I bought one of each as there is a large'ish selection of novelty plastic and tin whistles, pan-pipes, whizzers, kazoos, clickers and the like kicking around, so one day they can have their own page!

 

A handful of the Marty/M-Toy (May Moon Industrial) fantasy warriors from the 1980's, I have some and we've looked at them once or twice, but it's worth buying them when they are reasonably priced, for the weapons, which are always short?

 

My expense of the day, there are two wheel/axle sets missing, but the armoured-car is a duplicate, so a bit of cannibalism will get these Triang Minic's back in road-order! Civilian versions of the lorries and car can be found, while we've seen dessert versions of the two AFV's (and the caterpillar-tractor?), and the whole set also comes in RAF blue-grey.

 

Metal from Adrian's cheapie-tray, all aluminium, and one first supposes, all French, but I'm not sure on the scarecrow? The Drummer is Quiralu, not sure about the machine-gunner either, but I think it's actually the British Wend-Al which is probably the attribution for the scarecrow too?

 

The Marx mini-animal, in its original Hong Kong generic box, over-stickered to Combex, who were part of the tail-end of the Marx UK story, so that all makes sense! Adrian had put it to one side for me, so many thanks to him!

 

Not sure on the kennel/out-building, while the Grant's Whiskey premium (die-cast by Britains), is an ongoing thing; I have lots of them in several places, and I don't carry a wants-list, so I tend to grab them when I see them going cheap, against one day bringing them all together and working out what I've got, what I need and how many duplicates I can offload to pay for any missing ones! High numbers tent to be harder to find.

 

Adrian also had these for me, he'd been following the previous posts on the subject, three Lone Star and one Charbens, to be sorted into the collection when the others turn-up from storage!

 

Tudor Rose boats, I actually took the mast from the white one, to complete the bi-colour! Later re-issued by Springwood Mouldings in netted bags as beach toys, which is pretty-much their original purpose! These are marked Tudor Rose.

 

I think this was Poplar Plastics, but we may have just mused on it being so? Can't remember if it was marked, it's big, about 10-iches long, or approximately 150mm figure, and if not Poplar will be Tudor Rose or Kleeware?

 

A small selection of smaller farm and zoo, nothing particularly rare or exciting, but it was a 50p or quid bag? The deer is a little Japanese blow-mould (polystyrene), and the polar bear will be a cake-decoration, also hard 'styrene. The Britains calf is near mint-paint, so probably the highlight.

C is for Canoes - 20 - Wend-Al (and Quiralux?)

Just a box ticker as the two folders (Brian's and mine) thin out to a finish! This was on feeBay about two years ago, and while I did have a couple of other images of colour variations, I noticed the other day they are still on sale! So I won't use them now, but, Dude, if you've relisted something for two years; your Buy-It-Now is set too high?

 

As I've said for years to anyone who'll listen (attracting a few more 'eemies' along the way), none of this stuff is 'rare', it was all mass-produced!

 

Playful, chunky and almost indestructible! for such a 'solid' material, the figure is a nice animated sculpt, but the boat is definitely toy-like, and too short. Wend-Al and maybe Quiralux, in different paint?

 

But retuning to the previous point for a second, I was perusing this Faceplant site earlier today;

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/270886240594726/?hoisted_section_header_type=recently_seen&multi_permalinks=1000722010944475

 

 . . . and there are guys on there with boxes of Astrid, or trays of Miniajouets or a shed-load of Gulliver, Pech, Comansi . . .  or whoever, literally; none of it is rare.

 

The rarities are the exceptions, where a set was never issued (Britains 'Superdeetail'), or the mould was lost on the first morning of production (Lone Star Musketeers) or something equally catastrophic, or the firm was very small, and it was a long time ago (some of the early 'from hollow-cast'), but for everything else, it's just a question of waiting!

C is for Chris's Autumn Parcel - Transport

'Planes, Ships which might have seen trains and automobiles'! Some interesting items were among the vehicular portion of the parcel from Chris, and we're looking at them in this post, starting with my favourites . . .

. . . two anodised aluminium artillery pieces! One slightly crushed! I mean on one level they are the cheapest of cheap tat (and Chris is in agreement on that point I think, I'm not slagging-off a donation!), and as Chris pointed out, probably made yesterday, but on another level they are fantastic, you will by now have figured I like the eclectic, the unusual, the not necessarily seen-before, and these tick all those boxes!

Imagine for a second, these, on a shelf, with some of those 'home cast' spirit painted semi-flat colonials, or sub-scale hollow-cast penny toy soldiers, in shiny pink, heliotrope red, apple green or turquoise? D'you see? Fantastic!

So really pleased with them; they are constructed in a similar fashion to tin-plate toys - slots, folds and soft rivets - but are all lightweight aluminium, and while you may well find similar in an Asian import emporium tomorrow, equally, items like this have been around for years, and this kind of stuff barely ages if looked-after, so they may have some age?

I think the 'napoleon' gun once had some kind of wire or tube trail, which slotted into these two fold-backs, so I will at some point make a replacement with a piece of heavy-gauge brass wire, or tubing, but to stop it tarnishing I'll have to varnish, I suspect? Bending tubes this small is hard without kinking them and would require long thin springs, so it'll probably be wire . . . a sharp A-frame with two tabs to slot into these channels?

Likewise - with the naval gun, I have inherited a brass ring-sizer, and various tiny silversmith's hammers, so I think some gentle tappity-tap-tapping will restore both ends of its barrel and a gentle squeeze in the middle with a leather wrapped pair of pliers will sort the whole thing out . . . then I'll probably find one, pristine, in a charity shop! 

The truck on the left is marked Snap, so had to be Kellogg's Rice Krispies, and there's a page for that! Cereal Offers have the whole story! I had thought it might be a Kinder Unimog upon first sighting, but that'll be for another day. The bulldozer is one of the early, post-war replacements for the card counters in Monopoly sets!

These need further work, probably French premiums, others exist but I don't recognise the ASM mark on these. In 'the stash' I have several sets of these; Bonux has a set I think and they are similar to EKO's commercial set (Spain), while some of INGAP's are already on the Blog, but they were probably copied from someone else and 'W.Germany' was in there too?

On the right the Hong Kong copies of the MPC 'Minis' we've seen before, but there are variants and it's always worth checking them against the rest, while on the left is what I suspect is the forth model in the British comics giveaway we've also seen here, but not this one, which is a Stirling Bomber I think?

This makes sense as the other three I've found (bits of!) are two figuters (Spitfire and Me.109) and a German bomber (Heinkel?), and they were sold in packs of two, so maybe you got two bombers or two fighters, OR two Allied or two Axis? Anyone get Fury, Valiant or Warlord back in the day and can tell us?

The little concord is a mystery, possibly a cereal premium, but a bit small so more likely a capsule-machine/Christmas cracker type, I may have one, in red or green? The rest are 1/600 scale naval aviation machines from model Aircraft Carrier kits, the twin bomber probably being from a USS Hornet kit of the 'Doolittle Raid' (Revell?). Look how big the Tomcat is compared to its WWII ancestors; it can probably carry more war stores than the weight of one of the old planes!

Motor cycles consist of a rack toy in chrome-finish which is new, a cracker/gum-ball type in hard plastic (never have too many of them!) and Indie's ride, loose which will help future comparison shots, along with two larger scale figures for the tub of such chaps, one of whom appears to be an Evel Knievel knock-off!

While on the vessel front we have another lovely Viking tourist memento, but, is it from Scandinavia, or York? The motorboat is a real treat, I have somewhere a survivor of childhood in a badly painted (by me) MTB, which came as a set of four, and while I've seen them on the card (a whole trade carton full at the NEC show), the seller wanted far too much for them, so I passed, therefore it's nice to have one come in, out of the blue.

The two life-belt rings (another came-in today, red/white one!) will go in that bit of the spares zone dedicated to such things, they are often off-the-shelf separates in various sizes, sold through Hobbies, Polk's or Billings and turn-up in loose lots when collections get dispersed by surviving relatives! While the last item is in one of the canoe posts already, and lacks a Smurf crew-member!!

Another 'thank you' to Chris Smith for all this, it should have published much earlier, but today was bitterly cold, and the fire nearly went-out twice, keeping me busy staying warm, or keeping Boysy-boy warm . . . what - he's got four bare feet!

S is for Shiny Shelfies!

While in TKMaxx the other day, I shot these ornamental lumps for two reasons, one being that they cover a subject we cover here, and secondarily to show how a lot of what might be appearing in local auctions rooms as 'apprentice pieces' might have been made five-minutes ago from recycled drinks cans in Mumbai!

By far the better piece and at £12.99p affordable if it tickles your fancy that much, but not something I need, a vague Mosquito look, it would go well with Tintin figures in a display cabinet maybe? It had a stern label stating it's "...not a toy" and is "...for decoration only", which is probably to save TJX Europe from law-suits for broken toes!

This was frankly ugly, and is the sort of hidiosity you might see in the background of one of those navel-gazing movies about the making of the movies where it would be owned by some unspeakable Hollywood mogul who's Bel Air mansion would have been entirely furnished by an 'interior designer' anyway, but then you can say that about a lot of the stuff in TKMaxx's home-furnishing section!

It also looks a bit like some of the designs in that movie with Jude Law I can't remember the name of (the one with the flying aircraft carriers - and Angelina Jolie as a pilot-babe?)? It had the better propellers though, the ones on the 'mosquito' are vary crude and heavy.

Both were marked 'Made in India' which is forth entry in the tag list I think, and reminds me there's still some 'India' in the queue, from Mr. B!

T is for Two - Of The Few!

As we lose the forth-to-last remaining Battle of Britain fighter-pilots, here's a couple of really very interesting model 'planes, the first is the less fascinating maybe, being a chunk of Alli', the other is a real treat. Both shot on Adrian Little's Mercator Trading table at Sandown Park, but photographed several months apart.

I think this is probably a 1st-year or 1st-term (Christmas) an apprentices or engineering student's test-piece, due to its crudity and lack of true mirror-symmetry . . . and the fact that the engines point outward, or that it lacks a notable or noticeable cockpit!

However, one or two people who saw it at the show thought it might have had a more commercial aspect, remembering similar stuff from their childhoods. Being older than me I'm not going to argue with them and will leave it to your judgement.

It's an aluminium casting, but appears to have been poured, not pressure-injected, resulting in softer lines and a rougher surface, and might be trying to be a Bristol Blenheim fighter-bomber?

We know what this is because it's written on both wings! A De Havilland Comet, but issued in a natty army-green, rather than the more famous racing scarlet! It's also marked with the B&s cipher of Barratt and Son's - similar to the cipher of the Bergan Toy Company (Beton)!

What I find so fascinating about this slush-cast lead-alloy (whitemetal) model is that it's almost identical in production values or properties to the early Supermarine Spitfire and Bolton-Paul Defiant models from Palitoy, not because it's copying them, but because they were aping the previous technology, prior to discovering the full potential in the properties of the new materials.

The way the propellers are fixed on with nails set into the casting, the whole profile of the wings and fuselage, even the marking position and style is similar!

Thanks to Adrian again, for the photo-op'.

C is for Catch-up - Sandown Park - May

After the relative frugality of March's show the May show at Sandown park was a bit of a boot-filler, and that despite the fact that Wilton (Plastic Warrior show) had been a polymer-fest two weeks earlier!

Where to start! Top left to bottom right? One of the 'home cast' guards, a French hollow-cast of an Indian army soldier, two Zang, a Dinky mechanic and some bits; the die-cast 'plane will be from a board game, worker is Wardie Mastermodels, part of a Kellogg's puzzle jeep and a baby!

The aluminium flats have been looked at now, the corn stook is Speedwell, two - probably board game - motorcycle flats (one lead the other possibly die-cast) and a bunch of WHW's also now properly dealt with (and follow-upped on!). The above were all saved for me by, or came from the stall of Adrian Little.

Also from Adrian the two upper rows; I Blogged the Coma copies soon after retiuning to the Blog afetr Dad's passing, the Romans have been covered before, both PVC and ethylene and the chariot, plus copy, but they still need to be all brought together.

Bottom row may have been Adrian as well, I can't remember, but they are I think generic Hong Kong copies of Monograme, rather than the thicker-based ones Kent Sprecher has ascribed to one of the Marx HK factories.

Seen them a while ago - these were part of a big 'score' of rack-toys I managed to secure in mid-afternoon, long after everyone else had been past or over the guy's stall so I hate to think what I missed!

Came from all over; Smoky the Bear tourist trophy and flat sheep, followed by the robot and two aliens from Wilton, Mr Men and another of the rack-toy stash - all covered in the last few months and the floor sweepings were a bit poor, with a Space Marine back-pack and an F1 aerofoil!

Again from the rack-toy stall, and again, I think we've seen most of them now. I think the basket-ball players may be cake-decorations, but they could be from a board game? I've already fixed the hand!

I think there were 17 sets in all, and we've seen about a third of them since July, the rest will come, over time as time allows or posts require. I anonymised them in this shot as I intended to publish this back at the time, but as you know I took some time off and they are now broken-up and put-away.

The May show was going to be two posts, but with stuff that's already published and so on, I threw this bitty video together, god knows what the Youtube regulars will make of it, but it's the only way of getting it up here, so there it is!

A couple of things I shot on Adrian's stand, the lovely privet-hedge horse and a long shot of the selling which takes place in the hour between the gates opening to the car park and the doors opening to the hall. And yes; malleable has two 'L's!

That last shot on the slide-show/video thingy; it is interesting for showing the two strides of the Malleable Mouldings marines, with the third guy at full stride, the other two taking shorter steps.

Note also that these must have come from an out-painter, as she (they were almost all female) has given-up painting the first figure mid-way through the white with the red, black and silver still to come, yet has added the gold to the helmet, over the [unfinished] white?

R is for Return - to Nazi Flats

So we looked at these a while ago and I asked whether they might be post-war, maybe East German or Russian parodies of Nazi's as part of some propaganda exercise, possibly cigarette premiums, but I had shot them hurriedly, at a show, and had not had time to investigate them properly.

Now that I have looked at them closely (they are in the collection!) the only fact remaining from the earlier musing would seem to be . . . they might have been cigarette premiums! Everything else is up for grabs!

The first clue is that they are all marked DRGM (Deutsches Reich Gebrauchs Muster = a minor patent or registered design), which was [one of] the German equivalent[s] (they had dozens) of the English 'Pat.Pend' or French/Italian Depose, and which ran from before the Nazi rule, until after it, so wherever they came from, the evidence says it was within the confines of either 'greater Germany' or the later West Germany?

The next clue is that the flag has a large swastika clearly visible upon it, and if you're wondering why I obliterated the swastikas on the Atlantic set but not here; it's simply that the Atlantic set is a weird modern 'homage' to a vile, murderous, militarised, yet 'civilian' political regime, while these - as we will see - are probably 'historical artifacts' - it's all about context!

Another possible clue is the short arms on the flag's swastikas, which could point to something? Did the SA use short arms; production likely during the NAZI period, or did the artist not know the correct dimensions because it was so new; production likely before the Nazis came to power?

Swastikas are also suggested on several arm-bands, and the reason this is such a clue is that the showing of Nazi iconography was made illegal soon after the end of the war as part of the de-Nazification effort, which means we can probably rule out West Germany, as we have now ruled-out the East.

Which leaves the figures as German-made and set in or just before the Nazi's came to power? Here we see that the helmeted figures have the side-studs for mounting things like face -guards/visors on, and - while the tops have been rendered slightly flatter by removal from the runner - still, the lines of the helmet are the squarer one of WWI Stosstruppen 'Boxheads', rather than the later, rounder/cleaner-lined one which 'soldiered-on' with the West German fire-brigade until quite recently.

Other clues include the grey-green coated figures; the Germans used a very similar coating on their steel training ammunition to prevent surface-rust (arrowed - where the varnish seal was broken extracting the black-powder) in storage, while it is a neutral varnish to the figures green, the thinness, with metal showing through, and the all-over, thin-wash, one-coat nature is the same, it's not conclusive evidence, it's a clue, and it allows me to show you a rare'ish piece of militaria!.

Bit of a departure mid-post, but I'd better explain; The rounds (stained pink for an unknown reason; mould inhibitor, 'live' status designator?) are wooden, they would not have travelled far, or done much damage, but at short ranges (indoor or pipe-ranges) might have marked a target, while on exercise; they would have provided realistic 'kick', noise and smoke/smell, and could launch rifle-grenades without mishap. However, the hollow in the wooden bullet, would have caused drag-turbulence and lost momentum very quickly - they are basically blanks!

The cases are steel (cheaper than brass; by '43 they were losing the war) and compared here with a modern 5.56mm SA80 blank-round (which is brass). They are sitting in the magazine re-loading clip they came with, which is very similar to the ones we used with SLR's in the 1980's (but then the cartridge bases are near identical on both rounds) but this is stainless, or a non-ferrous steel-like alloy , while ours were steel, painted gun-black and would rust in damp pouches!

They were de-activated many years ago by yours truly, who put the black powder to good use, that is; if you consider Tobin and myself nearly blowing our faces off with a home-made chair-leg cannon and then almost drilling a large hole in my brother's head with a tractor-wheel bolt-grenade 'good use', otherwise the black-powder was recklessly used in haste, dangerously, but all three of us had a brilliant afternoon - 41 years ago, summer half-term!

So, back to the figures; there are several possible scenarios, the first (1) still being that they were piss-taking parodies?

But now of German origin (rather than the Ost Deutsche or Soviet proposed last time) and from someone on the 'Left', satirising the early Nazi's; all that prancing about with Ernst Rohm and his mob of bully-boy, brown-shirt, boy-scout SA, happy-campers! And most of the figures are wearing the little SA kepi?

Being manufactured before they came to power, in which case it's a fair bet everyone involved in these figures may have ended-up in a concentration camp, a - likely - fate which would add a certain poignancy to the set.

But then -  Rohm was a bit of a short-arse? If the 'Hitler' character (third from left?) is a piss-take of Rohm, these could be SS or NSADP-sanctioned (2) piss-takes of the SA, in order to prepare the ground for The Night of the Long Knives? Or even - referring back to the same, in order to explain/excuse [propagandise] it, after the event?

I can only find this and while he was banned by the Nazi's, he wasn't killed, and his style is different?

Or . . . (3) that they were comedy figures - but possibly based on characters that would have been known to the populace at the time, perhaps from a newspaper strip-cartoon?

Taking the Mickey out of one's own military in order to humanise it (especially when it's rightly regarded as the instrument of a totalitarian, fascist dictatorship, busy 'disappearing' people in the middle of the night . . . or broad daylight!) has a rich history . . .

. . . one thinks of Old Bill and Woodbine Willy in WWI, the 'Two Types' in WWII, or Bilko, Beetle Bailey, Dad's Army, It 'Aint Half Hot Mum, ITMAR and The Navy Lark on radio or MASH, and all the great double acts; Abbot & Costello, Bud & Lou, Laurel & Hardy had/did military parodies?

This guy almost looks 'familiar', was he one of the characters in a series of Nazi propaganda posters, or have I just Blogged him too much?!!

Lined-up with a few known-WHW's, were they - indeed - (4) comedy WHW's?

From the left we have a bisque miner from a set of profession/occupation broach-figures (pin rusted to almost nothing), a composition pilot with string-hanger hole in his floatation collar (no Mae West 'boobies' for the Luftwaffe!) possibly from Elastolin or Lineol (?), two of the aluminium figures, one polished, the other coated, an unpainted WHW policeman, a painted 'historical uniform' figure (I seem to recall they were issued as Guard Regiments of Berlin) and one from the set we looked at the other day.

The police set has been tied-in to the Gau of Berlin (as issuer) also, but there are actually several versions, painted, unpainted and heavier-based, so like the commoner 'combat' set, there seems to be a history  of multiple issues and/or multiple issuers behind the set.

Finally (5) they could be 'just' post-war parodies, getting out before the ban on Nazi regalia and iconography took hold? But I think - now - we are looking at something earlier.

Unifying the animal samples for a comparison/completion shot or two I can report that they are all unmarked with the exception of the rhinoceros which is clearly marked 'FOREIGN', suggesting they (some or all?) were imported into the UK at some point, where they would most likely have been Christmas cracker novelties.

The similarities in base are unmistakeable, but the animals - both farm/domestic and zoo/wild are of a slightly poorer finish, so a late use of older moulds perhaps? Hanomag and Fokker are still going strong, Elastolin survived until the 1990's, no reason why a small toy-maker or metal-fabricator from the Nazi-era shouldn't have dug it's old animal moulds out in the 1950's or '60's and run them again?

Mine have come as two, small, mixed lots (farm & zoo together both times), possibly with the Rhino' separate (I've rather lost track of them all by blogging them in the wrong order!), so it's all only conjecture, but I think a common-source is quite likely, especially as flats are often ID'able from the nuances of the bases, not that these - injection-moulded alloy - are exactly 'traditional' zinn flats!